topic TRIM under XP in Archive

TRIM under XP

idata — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:07:39 GMT

Hello,

I have bought a X25-V and i'm under XP, how to activate TRIM ?

what is his advantage ? i know TRIM is used by defaut on Windows7....

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:54:46 GMT

Use toolbox to run Optimizer and setup a schedule for it.

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=18455&lang=eng&wapkw=(Solid+State+Drive+Toolbox http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=18455&lang=eng&wapkw=(Solid+State+Drive+Toolbox)

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 20:23:59 GMT

Hello PeterUK,

I have now "This tool is not supported on the selected drive" i really do not understand why... it is my

SSD HD 😞

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Thu, 30 Dec 2010 04:49:19 GMT

What the motherboard and what driver are you using?

For the SSD Optimizer to work in XP, you need:

1) A 34nm G2 Intel SSD (you have)

2) Firmware version 02HA or higher (should have)

3) Microsoft AHCI or Intel Matrix Storage Manager drivers (I suspect this to the reason)

http://download.intel.com/design/flash/nand/mainstream/Intel_SSD_Optimizer_White_Paper.pdf http://download.intel.com/design/flash/nand/mainstream/Intel_SSD_Optimizer_White_Paper.pdf

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:22:50 GMT

Hello,

> Firmware version 02HA (should have)

I have 02HD

> Microsoft AHCI or Intel Matrix Storage Manager drivers (I suspect this to the reason)

My SATA controller are NVIDIA MCP51 so IMSM are not compatible...

TIP ! I have found the solution on a competitor community forum

The second tweak is changing the Nvidia driver to the Microsoft one. Go to Device Manager -> IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers. You should see the device 'NVIDIA nForce Serial ATA Controller', or maybe a few of them depending on how many devices you have installed. Go to properties on each one and for every ****** drive, do the following. Go to Driver -> Update Driver -> 'Install from a specific list or location (Advanced)' -> 'Don't search. I will choose the driver to install.' Select 'Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller' and click 'Next'. Click 'Finish' and reboot.

This tweak is a must for anyone with an Nforce chipset as it gives a great boost in the reads and a small increase in writes.

So now it works ! i will answer shortly to give you comparison speed...

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Fri, 31 Dec 2010 14:12:31 GMT

The speed is in all case better than with NVDIA drivers...i hasn't seen big differences between TRIM ON and TRIM OFF...

in all cases HTH

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Fri, 31 Dec 2010 19:31:17 GMT

You won't see any differences with TRIM enabled/disabled until you make the SSD "dirty".

You need to pound the SSD with massive numbers of random writes then run some write benchmarks. This simulates months of disk usage and creates dirty blocks. TRIM is to help prevent dirty blocks.

Note, that massive number of random writes will reduce the lifespan of the SSD.

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 06:16:11 GMT

Ok folks, you're losing me here. The original post asked how to "activate TRIM" in Windows XP.

It could be assumed from the replies that it is possible to activate TRIM in XP. Is that not false?

Of course one can manually run TRIMs with the Toolbox, and that's just fine, but I don't consider that "activating" TRIM, as in enabling the OS to send a TRIM command. Since when can that be done in XP?

Also, DuckieHo, aren't you saying that for TRIM to work the SSDs firmware should be at least 02HA, and could also be 02HD?

Message was edited by: parsec

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 10:30:03 GMT

hello,

if i well understood, TRIM permit to keep a list of "HD bad sectors" ? i will open a new thread

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Mon, 03 Jan 2011 17:16:09 GMT

You are correct, if you meant that TRIM provides the LBAs of deleted files, not necessarily "bad sectors". Since HDDs and SSDs work differently internally, SSDs need to be informed which files are no longer valid (deleted/obsolete) so those blocks can be made available again by being reset to the SSDs notion of empty/available. HDDs do not need that information, thus no need for an OS to send it. The TRIM command was created to pass that information to SSDs. Windows 7 was the first OS to send TRIM commands to SSDs, and now a few others do too.

Windows XP has not been updated to send TRIM, and neither has Vista AFAIK. The Intel SSD Toolbox was created to send TRIM commands to their SSDs when that function is invoked from the Toolbox. The Toolbox does not "turn on" or activate TRIM within an OS, an OS is either TRIM capable or it isn't. I suppose it would be possible for a Windows Update or Service Pack installation to add the TRIM capability to their OSs, but that has not happened and may not be possible for some reason.

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 07:37:53 GMT

parsec wrote:

Ok folks, you're losing me here. The original post asked how to "activate TRIM" in Windows XP.

It could be assumed from the replies that it is possible to activate TRIM in XP. Is that not false?

Also, DuckieHo, aren't you saying that for TRIM to work the SSDs firmware should be at least 02HA, and could also be 02HD?

For clearity's sake, XP does not support TRIM but the Toolbox's feature replicated the functionality of cleaning the SSD. I took OP as "How do I clean my SSD" implicitly.

Yes, I meant to say at least 02HA.

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:57:28 GMT

Thanks Duckie, that's fine, I understand.

I simply wanted the facts to be clear, and IMO the discussion as it was written might lead someone to believe that XP could send the TRIM command.

Forums are a great thing but they also can easily contain inaccurate or partially accurate information. A few words added or excluded can make a big difference in ones comprehension. This forum also has a large amount of non-native English speaking people reading it, so it is very important to write concisely and correctly.

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 02:10:54 GMT

I'm also having problems using trim. I know XP won't auto trim so I'll be happy using trim through the Toolbox but currently it won't run on my X25-M. You

mentioned that one of the requirements was: 3) Microsoft AHCI or Intel Matrix Storage Manager drivers. My system won't boot with AHCI enabled in the bios. Will these the msahci or Intel drivers work on XP?

Here's my system:

XP Pro SP2

Gigabyte GA790FXTA-UD5

SB750 Southbridge

8 GB Corsiar 1333 DDR III

AMD Phenom II X4 965

Intel X25-M G2 w/Firmware version 02HA

ATI Radon HD 5700

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 05:38:15 GMT

Your SB750 is an AMD product, and the Intel drivers will not work with it, for more reasons than it's not made by Intel. So you can forget the Intel drivers.

Have you visited AMD's web site and checked into what they have? I'm not an AMD user right now, so I can't supply any more advice than that. I would be surprised if AMD did not have an AHCI driver for at least some of their chipsets.

As for msahci (from Windows 7) working on XP, I doubt it, but I am not certain. I've never heard that it does, and I think it would be common knowledge by now in SSD-land if it did. But I sure don't know everything.

BTW, I just read that the SB750 supports AHCI, so check AMD's web site, the SB750 was AMD's best southbridge in 2008, so you should be able to find some AHCI drivers for it on AMD's web site, or what about your mother board manufactures web site?

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:44:12 GMT

haye you used this ?

TIP ! I have found the solution on a competitor community forum

This tweak is a must for anyone with an Nforce chipset as it gives a great boost in the reads and a small increase in writes.

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 02:15:58 GMT

Sorry for the delay, been away on business,

Yes I've scoured the AMD fourms and download pages. It appears that trim support is now available

in the latest CCC download but only for Win 7. AMD is not interested in supporting XP at all.

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 02:39:55 GMT

parsec,

The SB750 only drives my SATA II ports and it does support AHCI. When I use the SATA III ports, driven by the Marvel 9128 controller, the drive flys with excellent benchmarks but won't support trim through a third party controller. After using it a few weeks it starts to drag, I can switch it to the SATA II ports,

real slow, and Trim works, erasing the deleated blocks then I have to move it back to the SATA III. I was hoping to be able to have speed and Trim together.

It seems as far as this setup with the X25-M, XP and AMD is a unworkable match.

Re: TRIM under XP

mmokk — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 03:06:27 GMT

did you try willemijns's suggestion?

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 03:20:46 GMT

The tip willemijns suggested seems to work if you have the Nvidia driver. I'm using a AMD CPU, AMD SD750 southbridge and

a ATI video card on a G-byte board. It's a good fix but won't work in my case.

Re: TRIM under XP

idata — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:44:26 GMT

labtec, Your results are interesting and curious at the same time. While I am not challenging them, we can make some observations based upon the specifications of the interfaces and what I will call the standard (expected) results, given the components in your PC.

First of all, and this is a matter of some debate, while the X-25 M SSD is a great 'drive, it's specs are such that it should not outperform the SATA 2 interface speed. Meaning, there ought to be no difference in performance when connected to a SATA 2 or SATA 3 interface. Your experience seems to be otherwise.

Next, when used on the Marvell SATA 3 interface, without TRIM, you notice a performance reduction after a while, which is what is predicted in theory, and now seen in your experience. I have never used my SSDs as you have, so I cannot add anything here.

Then when you move the SSD to the SATA 2 interface, you seem to say that it is much slower than when used on the SATA 3 interface (sorry but I don't think you are very clear on that point, IMO.) But you also say you moved the SSD because it has already slowed down due to lack of TRIM. Later, you changed back to the SATA 3 interface because "I have to move it back to SATA 3", implying that the SATA 2 interface is obviously slower to you. Is this correct? I just wanted you to be more clear on all this. Have you performed benchmarks on your SSD with both interfaces? We would be interested in the results.

My comments are I am surprised the AMD SATA 2 interface is poor, since that chipset is one of AMDs best. It's also interesting to me to hear that your SSD performs better with the SATA 3 interface, as I will admit that I am on the sceptical side of the argument I mentioned above. Also, the Marvell controller is not held in high regard by some users, although I have read tests on it that indicate it can perform very well.

I have never seen conclusive data that shows that X-25 M SSDs perform better on a SATA 3 interface, which is why I am interested in your results.

On another topic, the point of the suggestion describing the driver change with the NVIDIA chipset, in case you missed it, is that you should be able to use the MS driver with your AMD chipset. Or are you saying that since you use XP, that will not work for you?