topic The TRIM thread in Archive

The TRIM thread

idata — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:11:29 GMT

There's already a discussion on TRIM ( http://communities.intel.com/thread/5059?tstart=0 ), but the "Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?" question is not really the point of this thread.

Microsoft Windows 7 with TRIM support is already out there for MSDN subscribers like me (there's also a public Windows 7 RC), Linux kernel does support TRIM from version 2.6.28 and many users are waiting for TRIM support in order to buy an Intel SSD (G2).

So... what's the plan for a TRIM-capable firmware? Is there an ETA?

Thank you.

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:21:34 GMT

Will Intel's Trim support more than just NTFS partitions? I read elsewhere that competitors Trim implementations are windows only.

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:55:23 GMT

Example of the TRIM effectiveness on an Indilinx driven SSD with 1711 beta firmware (with TRIM support).

SuperTalent UltraDrive GX 17114KB Random Write IOPSClean Drive13.1 MB/sUsed Drive6.93 MB/sUsed Drive After TRIM12.9 MB/s

Source: http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3625

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:10:30 GMT

I think that with a TRIM-capable device driver and a TRIM capable controller/firmware, TRIM should be filesystem agnostic and operating system agnostic, as it should work at a lower level, being an ATA command (ATA8-ACS2). Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:30:25 GMT

ETA: "When Windows 7 ships."

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3605&cp=3 http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3605&cp=3

I'll start looking for it to turn up in October.

(There is a brand new 1.3 Firmware just posted within the last 24 hours though. No indication if it includes TRIM or not.)

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:38:03 GMT

Well, it already shipped, to MSDN at least.

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:57:11 GMT

"Shipped" would imply when it's for sale in stores. Non-public electronic distribution to places like Technet and MSDN isn't "shipped."

Many places are waiting for the actual public release date in October to put things out there, and just testing in the meantime.

All that having been said, the new firmware out in the last 24 hours might support things, but I can't seem to get my SSD recognized by the utility. I'll have to try it in another computer sometime.

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:04:57 GMT

Thank you for the English lesson.

Does anybody know the changes of this 1.3 firmware?

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:38:09 GMT

About 1.3 firmware...

"25 August 2009 045C8850 This firmware revision is for X25-E products only and has several continuous improvement optimizations intended to provide the best possible user experience with the Intel SSD"

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:44:04 GMT

I'm interested in this as well.

Currently, when I download large files over an extended period of time I save them to a partition on my X25-M SSD, and when they are done they are automatically moved to my larger non-SSD HDD. I do this because then I can have a fairly quiet computer without the noise from the conventional HDD while downloading.

However, I've started to worry that I may be degrading the performance of my SSD by doing this. I would very much like to have this cleared up; whether downloading large files to my SSD and moving them to some other HDD will actually cause a noticable performance degredation and if the TRIM command would be effective in preventing any supposed degredation.

As I see it, when I write, for example, a 2GB file to my SSD and then move it to my large HDD, the SSD has no idea that I've moved the file, and the blocks that the Intel controller chose to write this file to are occupied even after moving the file. As my OS and file system probably doesn't know it's dealing with an SSD, it will just, when moving the file, note that the blocks on the SSD to which it thinks it wrote the 2GB file, are now free and can be overwritten, but not actually clear them. However, since this is an SSD my file system has no idea which blocks on the SSD the Intel controller chose to write this file to. So as I see it, the Intel controller will just keep filling up the SSD with these 2GB files looking for new empty blocks because it doesn't know that the blocks which were occupied by the previous 2GB file are not in use any more. How can this not degrade performance?

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:46:06 GMT

Actually is TRIM only important to single drive environment?

My experience with Adaptec 5805Z and 8pcs of X25-M is great.....so great such that I can't believe I saw 3GB/s...not 3Gb/s during the peak, perhaps related to the cache. They are running averagely close to 2GB/s easily during heavy load with virtual machines, at RAID 0.

RAID 5 or 6 doesn't degrades the performance much though......

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:46:29 GMT

Windows 7 is out so where is TRIM for SSD?

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:42:30 GMT

I'd like to know where it is as well.

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:56:02 GMT

I hope it will be released soon... but I don't know why, I've a definite feeling that it will never be released

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:18:07 GMT

I hope this new firmware is worth the wait. I want performance, I want features, I want it now. C'mon Intel!

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:20:50 GMT

Would be a real kicker if they say new firmware for TRIM is not possible, but we have a new SSD with TRIM built in.

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:00:54 GMT

if that happened, it would be a kicker if lawyers were involved due to false advertising! Anyways, let's hope they deliver sooner rather than later. If indilinx (whatever its spelling) can do it the day before win7 launch, why can't intel? Especially when there are articles dated early October that mentions firmware 02HA.

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:22:45 GMT

Has Intel said there would be TRIM firmware? I haven't read itmyself, have you? I know Anand said it, but has Intel actually stated that?

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:19:13 GMT

"Drop-in compatible with SATA-based HDDs and all operating systems, the X25-M will also support Microsoft Windows 7 when it becomes available. At that time, Intel plans to deliver a firmware update to allow support of the Windows 7 Trim command, along with an end user tool, to allow users to optimize the performance of their SSD on Windows XP and Vista operating systems."

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20090721comp.htm http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20090721comp.htm

Re: The TRIM thread

idata — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:11:52 GMT

Well, Windows 7 is available so where is TRIM? And, I read that even with TRIM, there will be some degradation of performance over time, not as bad as now, but some performance loss will occur. The way to restore performance to like new condition will be imaging the drive to another and wiping the original drive clean allowing the procedure to be reversed when needed.

There will at some point in the future be a newly designed SSD that will hold its "new performance" better than what is available now even with TRIM.