topic Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ? in Archive

Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:31:05 GMT

Very scandalous to read today that Intel makes pressure on kingston to not deliver the firmware update for the KINGSTON 40GB SSD (identical product as INTEL X25V) !!!!

Don't forget, Mr INTEL , customer will not forget you !

You propose Intel controleur SSD product for KINGSTON and don't deliver support for your product !!!!

ONLY ONE WORD ! SCANDALOUS !

I hope you will read this post and consider that behind the KINGSTON 40GB SSD , there are customers who has bought a product ! We have bought a product with A support attached on it !!

Thanks for reading this post,

KR,

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:32:32 GMT

Source of article read today :

http://www.pcworld.fr/2010/01/10/materiel/stockage/ces-2010-ssd-kingston-controleur-toshiba-non-intel/468751/?utm_source=xml&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

JUST A QUESTION OF MONEY AS ALWAYS !

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:49:48 GMT

Intel don't even support trim on their own branded G1 products. Looks like Kingston have gone the way a lot of other customers are going to end up going....elsewhere. Short sighted and petty come to mind. Intel are no longer top of the pack so now is the time that customer loyalty will come to play.

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:02:59 GMT

Some words were passed and un-wize choices made.

Make it right Intel.

First the compiliers now this.

You've lost all my trust. I cannot trust that my processor is really the faster, cause your hands were breaking the software.

Now you tell , no to Kingston V 40GB having TRIM! . I just bought the drives after like 18 reviews were telling me TRIM is coming.

I want , my drive to be supported by the same Tools and Firmware as the Intel branded drives.

Kingston proved the market, put in the investment. Then sweeps in Intel, breaks bridges and hurts the customer. Again.

Make it right

Do the right thing

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:36:04 GMT

If the Kingston SSD is prevented from having TRIM, I'm asking for my money back. Kingston told us it was on their 'road map' so if they lied I think they should resolve the matter.

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:23:37 GMT

Kingston assumed, since the drive supported it, they'd be allowed to make a firmware update with TRIM.

Intel has told Kingston, no this will not happen, instead the Intel branded 40GB V series, will support TRIM and we'll not allow you to have it, because we want to charge more then you.

This is all on Intel, not Kingston, place blame where its deserved.

Kingston, wants you to have all the firmware updates, just like on there other Intel rebraded drives. Intel is refusing to allow them to make there own firmware with TRIM support or to support it with their firmware, like the Kingston M series SSD's.

This move and Intel's next generation performance figures, has Kingston leaving Intel controller SSD's all together and going Toshiba controllers and nand.

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:45:55 GMT

Well I don't really blame Kingston, although perhaps they should have made sure they had TRIM as part of their contract with Intel. Unfortunately since I bought the drive from Kingston, I shall have to ask them for a refund.

Intel lose Kingston's business but they're so huge they won't care.

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

Alan_F_Intel — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:16:20 GMT

@ Greg and Tony, you are referring to an SSD marketed and sold by Kingston, solely under their name and brand.

This is a different product than the SSDs marketed and sold by Kingston that are co-logo'd with Intel and Kingston – specifically the 80GB and 160GB SSDs sold under the Kingston SSDNow M-Series which they identify publicly, and in their literature, as the Intel® X25-M SSD. These are Intel-based drives and are jointly supported by Kingston and Intel. This is not the case with their 40GB SSD. It is not, and never was, an Intel branded or identified SSD and we are not responsible for product decisions that another company may make about their product lines. The Intel X25-V 40GB SSD supports TRIM, and did so when it was first released earlier this month.

rgds,

Alan

NAND Solutions Group

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:40:09 GMT

Alan,

thank you for responding but the situation is still unclear to me. The Kingston SSDNow 40GB is not Intel branded, but uses an Intel G2 controller and is therefore TRIM-capable. It is, I assume, identical to the 40GB Intel X25-V. Is Intel allowing Kingston to develop TRIM firmware for this SSD or are they preventing them from doing so? Does the firmware for the 40GB Intel X25-V work on the Kingston drive? Presumably it should unless Intel have written it so it only works on their own drive (which would seem a bit mean).

A comment from 'buzznut' on Tom's Hardware:

"It looks as though Intel knew what they were doing when they licensed the tech to Kingston, Now they've just rendered Kingston's drive obsolete."

Is this the case?

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 02:25:53 GMT

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

That does mean something.

But it doesn't change anything, unless I go 100% on what you're telling me and ignore the rest of my knowledge that I have gathered on the matter.

Your post sounded GREAT!

But it changed nothing on the matter.

Actions show you who, Intel is. Anyone can say alot of great sounding words.

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:34:04 GMT

I agree, Intel should resolve this case!

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:53:17 GMT

I must tell you, Im pretty amused by this whole thing regarding Kingston, Intel and trim. Why you all people cry about the big bad Intel if you bought a KINGSTON drive ?

Im asking: Is it Intel fault, that Kingstone signed an agreement with Intel regarding using their technology and selling it as the Kingstone product on BOTH AGREED terms ? You should sent emails, and post your problems on the Kingstone forum or support center. Kingston representatives, who signed the agreement, i think were not blind at the time they sign it and they knew what they can bring for their potential customers. Im believing, that there was a statement in the agreement regarding the trim or firmware which was known to Kingston in moment they sign it. The only company to blame is Kingstone because they didnt do anything enough to fully cover their future support for the product. If you buy the Siemens wasch machine and it would broke, you would go and yell at the Siemens or maybe at the Bosch who really produce the machine and Siemens only sticks their logo ? Think about it.

Better example is OCZ: they throw their money to the supplier company and they have the best product support on the market right now including firmware and others. If Kingstone had this opportunity to include the trim in firmware upgrades by signing the agreement on higher price then its their fault. If Intel at the beggining said, that they would sell their technology to Kingstone, but WITHOUT the trim and Kingstone AGREED TO IT then again, its Kingstone fault. I dont blame the Intel cause its business is business and its Kingstone fault, that they cant include trim at the moment. They simply shoot their feet with that kind of move, and now, You, the Kingstone customers are angry, which is totally normal, because i would be angry too, but not in Intel direction.

If I buy RAM module from ABC company, I dont care if its based on Samsung, Toshiba, Elpida, Hynix or other modules. If something is wrong, then I go and yell at the ABC company for a bad product. Not the above manufacturers.

If the agreement between Intel and Kingstone stated, that trim would be avaiable by any means to Kingstone drives, and now Intel is breaking some of the agreement terms, then its ok: the Intel is bad. But I assume this didnt happen, because a lot of people would knew about already and it would be an open war between those two companies.

I just want to point, that it doesnt matter, who is the exactly supplier or manufacturer of the Kingstone ssd drives - I dont care about it. If I bought the drive from Kingston then they are responsible for its support.

PS.

Im sorry if my english isnt good enough.

Best regards from Poland to both Kingston and Intel ssd drive users!

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:42:17 GMT

If you were the owner of one of the Intel-based Kingston drives, you would not be so amused.

I am communicating with Kingston but as yet, have not had any definitive answer from either company. I shall persevere until the matter is resolved.

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:22:39 GMT

I'm sure there are many of us in the same boat who bought the Kingston 40BG only because of the clear and very logical promise of trim in the future. I certainly wouldn't have installed in my newly built W7 system if if it wasn't logical that Intel would support their own memory and controller modules in the future any more than thinking they wouldn't support their chipsets, though they were used in other manufacturers motherboards, with new drivers. In my opinion this would amount to bad and seemingly even cutthroat business practice. I sincerely hope they understand that fact and both help and allow Kingston to update the firmware for trim in this almost entirely Intel product in the near future.

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:14:30 GMT

I take it Jacol didn't read the artical and is ignorant on this subject.

It helps, if you're informed first

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:32:04 GMT

Alan that's a bunch of horse feathers if I ever heard it. Internally the 40gb Kingston is an intel product that is capable of being

upgraded to trim and that is how it was openly marketed for months without a peep from Intel. I purchased mine because of

having good and reasonable faith that your company would support it. Please see my other post in this regard!

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

Alan_F_Intel — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:23:01 GMT

@tblewy and others

The product you are referencing is marketed, sold, and supported by Kingston. Please contact Kingston with questions regarding their SSD.

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:49:26 GMT

Repeating the same statement is not very helpful. We know that already and it doesn't change the fact that Intel make the controller and therefore presumably have some legal rights regarding any code which is written for it. If I am mistaken, I would be happy to be corrected.

I have already said that I have contacted Kingston. The unknown factor is whether or not Intel is preventing the development of TRIM firmware by Kingston

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:57:02 GMT

Wrong, its Indlinx (not OCZ) is supporting firmware for all drives wich use this controller including SuperTalent, GSkill, Corsair, OCZ etc...

So the same responsibility is on Intel!

Re: Why Intel makes pressure on KINGSTON to not deliver firmware update for TRIM for KINGSTON 40GB SSD ?

idata — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 01:46:51 GMT

Hello everybody,

I am a owner of a Kingston V Series SSD (40Go), which is pretty much an X25-V from Intel but around 40€ cheaper.

Like many of you i don't understand the non support of TRIM.

I read what the representative from Intel told us in this discussion, and i'm really glad he did spoke to us, for your interest i thank you.

BUT, we do blame Intel on preventing Kingston from releasing their firmware, why do we state that this is an Intel Issue ? From this interview of Louis Kaneshiro, senior technology manager chez Kingston during the recent CES, he spoke with french journalists, and here is what he said : "Kingston a en effet demandé à Intel de pouvoir supporter le TRIM sur son SSD, ce que le géant de Santa Clara a refusé", translated it means : "Kingston indeed asked Intel to support TRIM on his SSD, Santa Clara giant Intel refused it".

So what we do want to know is WHY Intel didn't accept this firmware do be distributed, if it's not only to sell their identical most expensive drive...

Thank you for reading me, I hope we will find a solution, from Kingston/Intel, or from a talented "Hacker" who could bypass Intel Drive verification..