topic Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer in Archive

TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:13:37 GMT

Appreciate any corrections to the following:

Per Intel, "The Intel SSD Optimizer is the tool that implements Trim functionality."

And, since SSD Optimizer is part of the Intel SSD Toolbox, those of us with new G2 SSDs cannot utilize TRIM until the SSD Toolbox download is available.

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:30:12 GMT

Thats not true, you can utilize TRIM in windows 7 using standart microsoft driver (msahci)

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:05:46 GMT

Then explain Intel's comment: "The Intel SSD Optimizer is the tool that implements Trim functionality."

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:22:48 GMT

Does using the Microsoft driver mean that I shouldn't load the Intel chipset drivers? I'm using an Intel DX58SO board.

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:29:38 GMT

The chipset driver is not your storage driver. We are talking about Intel Matrix Storage driver. The current IMSM driver does not support passthrough of the Trim command. You will need to use the native MS AHCI driver to get Trim support in Win7 today. The next rev of IMSM coming out early next year will have support for Trim included

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:53:34 GMT

just put "ms ahci" or "msahci" into the search field on the right up corner (Community Search) and press search. You will find all answers needed.

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:59:19 GMT

If you are using Windows 7, no RAID, and have the msahci.sys driver listed for your SATA AHCI controller, then running the optimizer is not needed--TRIM will function automatically.

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:03:26 GMT

More definitive info:

So, apparently, we do need the Toolbox download to implement TRIM in Windows 7.

Per Intel's white paper:

Intel's white paper:

http://download.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/434471_intel_ssd_optimizer_white_paper.pdf

The Intel® SSD Optimizer takes advantage of the new DATA SET MANAGEMENT command now available in the ATA8-ACS-2 specification.

Without the Intel® SSD Optimizer, the performance of the drive will begin to slow as it fills.Any 34nm Intel® X25-M or X18-M solid-state drives running firmware version 02HA or later will contain support for the Intel® SSD Optimizer.

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:05:19 GMT

Operating System

Storage Driver

Execution Environment

Microsoft Windows* 7

Microsoft* AHCI

Native OS support (Intel

® SSD Toolbox not required)

Microsoft Windows 7

Intel

® Matrix Storage Manager**

Intel

® SSD Toolbox required

Microsoft Windows Vista* or XP

Microsoft AHCI or Intel

® Matrix Storage Manager

Intel

<font face="Neo Sans Intel,Neo Sans Inte...

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:25:32 GMT

Look at the heading in the third column: "Execution Environment"

IMO: there is no [manual] execution of Intel's Toolbox required as Win 7 has "Native OS support"

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 23:04:15 GMT

The Intel SSD Optimizer is a tool that implements trim command. It was primarily developed for users of Windows XP and Vista OS of which know nothing about trim. Win7 has built in support to execute trim command and therefore the Intel SSD Optimizer is not needed (assuming you are using the MSAHCI driver). The one caveat today where Win7 users will have to rely upon the Intel SSD Optimizer to get trim functionality is if they are using the current Intel IMSM driver which does not support passthrough of the command. The next release of Intel's driver expected to be released by early next year will have support for trim.

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:06:36 GMT

From: Intel_SSD_Optimizer_White_Paper.pdf

(notice my capitalization on key words: executed and support)

Beginning of quoting.

After the Intel® SSD Optimizer has EXECUTED in Figure 2, the SSD now shares the same view of deleted files as the OS file system. Any 34nm Intel® X25-M or X18-M solid-state drives running firmware version 02HA or later will contain SUPPORT for the Intel® SSD Optimizer. When using the latest Microsoft Windows* 7 operating system with Microsoft AHCI storage drivers the OS will contain native SUPPORT to EXECUTE the Intel® SSD Optimizer on an Intel SSD without requiring any user interaction.End of quoting.

So, Intel's SSD Optimizer is required to have TRIM

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:17:13 GMT

This section of the whitepaper is poorly worded.

"Any 34nm Intel® X25-M or X18-M solid-state drives running firmware version 02HA or later will contain SUPPORT for the Intel® SSD Optimizer. When using the latest Microsoft Windows* 7 operating system with Microsoft AHCI storage drivers the OS will contain native SUPPORT to EXECUTE the Intel® SSD Optimizer on an Intel SSD without requiring any user interaction."

Replace "Intel SSD Optimizer" with "Trim" and it will read correctly. Table 1 in the whitepaper is accurate in detailing when you need to use the Toolbox/Optimizer to get trim support. The ONLY time you need the Toolbox/Optimizer to get trim suport in Win7 is when using Intel Matrix Strorage Driver. If using MSACHI driver Win 7 will automatically do the trimming for you.

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:12:09 GMT

Win 7 does not do the "trimming".

Win 7 passes deleted file info to SSD Optimizer when requested to do so. SSD Optimizer does the "trimming".See http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3667

From: intel_ssd_toolbox_fqa.pdf"The Intel SSD Optimizer is the tool that implements Trim functionality."

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:48:02 GMT

To Czz:

"TRIM" is a SATA command. As the previous posts stated. If you have WINDOWS 7 and the appropriate MSAHCI driver, then you do not have to use the toolbox.

Windows 7 is THE ONLY OS at this time that passes the "TRIM" command to the SSD drive via the OS driver, NOT THE TOOLBOX. The driver then pases the command to the SSD. If the SSD firmware recognizes the command, then it will execute the command.

The TOOLBOX implements the TRIM command also. If the toolbox is mandatory to execute TRIM on a compliant Operating System, then Intel would have said that. They didn't.

Please Read you last post. Did Intel say this "The Intel SSD Optimizer is the tool that implements trim functionality IN WINDOWS 7" No. the instructions said the TOOL implements TRIM functionality. Why? The toold needs to implement the TRIM functionality because Windows Vista and XP do not pass the "TRIM" command, therefore, in order to have this functionality work in VISTA and XP, one must use the toolbox

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:06:22 GMT

Read Intel's white paper on the SSD Optimizer and then post your comments:

http://www.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/CS-030992.htm

From that document:

"When using the latest Microsoft Windows* 7 operating system with Microsoft AHCI storage drivers the OS will contain native support to execute the Intel® SSD Optimizer on an Intel SSD without requiring any user interaction"

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:53:46 GMT

From Intel's white paper:

When using the latest Microsoft Windows* 7 operating system with Microsoft AHCI storage drivers the OS will contain native support to execute the Intel® SSD Optimizer on an Intel SSD without requiring any user interaction.

Microsoft Windows* 7

Microsoft* AHCINative OS support (Intel® SSD Toolbox not required)

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:21:35 GMT

Instead of quoting what microsoft said and did not say, is there a way to prove that trim is working with just msahci.sys?

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:56:09 GMT

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3667&p=2 Testing trim

Re: TRIM is not active without optimizer

idata — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:06:12 GMT

It is my understanding that for the Microsft AHCI driver to be active you must make the appropriate registry entry listed at the Microsoft link below. Is this correct?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922976 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922976

How do you know that TRIM is being passed to the Intel Controller automatically, any way to find this information?

Thanks.