topic Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support? in Archive

Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:53:26 GMT

After reading for a while I don't see this question being answered clearly. I have one of the black X25-M drives and with today's annocement of the silver ones (with a different controller) it mentions that they will support a TRIM update when Windows 7 comes out.

Was curious as I'd rather pay a restocking fee and shipping to send my curent x25 back to the seller and pick up a siler x25 when they are out.

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:45:07 GMT

If you read Anands article: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3605 http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3605

"TRIM Support: Not For 50nm Drives Part of today's announcement is the fact that Intel will enable TRIM on these 34nm drives when Windows 7 ships. Intel is planning on releasing a user downloadable firmware update that will enable TRIM support. Windows Vista and XP users will get a performance enhancement tool that presumably will just manually invoke the TRIM command. I suspect that Intel is waiting until Windows 7 to enable TRIM support is to make sure that everything is thoroughly tested. As we've seen with other attempts to enable TRIM, it's a tricky thing to do. The disappointing part of the announcement is that there's no TRIM support for the first gen 50nm drives. As far as I can tell, this isn't a technical limitation of the drives, but rather something Intel is choosing to enable only on the 34nm products." So, no Trim tool or Trim on Gen# 1 SSD's, just because Intel does not care about "old" products when they want to sell new ones, what a "surprice"... Shafting most of the SSD enthusiast crowd is going to cost them dearly, and there are alot of pissed off Gen# 1 owners on the SSD forums. There is no excuse for this kind of behaviour..

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:04:26 GMT

I can't believe it... this is absurd. This is unacceptable behavior for such a big company...

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:54:12 GMT

Ourasi wrote:

If you read Anands article: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3605 http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3605

Here's the kicker... He said that, but didn't provide any data to back it up. I would like to hear it officially from Intel before trying to return my drive.

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:12:31 GMT

Agreed. So far it is only a rumour, but it again highlights the lack of Intel's PR ability when it comes to their ssd product range.

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:35:21 GMT

Along with Endoplasmic

I also would like to see the 1st Generation 50nm X-25M drives receive a firmware update for TRIM and other enhancements/bug fixes Intel addressed during the R&D of the new 34nm drives.

Not meaning to troll or flame, but WE paid a premium on the 1st Generation Drives, it would not be fair for Intel to forget us like this.

With any luck Anandtech were guessing because Intel did not make an official statement on an ETA for this firmware update.

With anyluck we will have new firmware by October/November

Please could Intel make a statement on this

John

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:52:39 GMT

Usually, it's from Intels mouth to Anand's keyboard, so cannot imagine he would state this without a clear answer from Intel before typing this... If however he is mistaken (not likely), or an Intel turnaround occurs (!), they would avoid alot of heat from the from the worst crowd to dissapoint, the enthusiasts... Trim is needed to clear out LBA and avoid constant used state for the normal user, and the enthusiast is pretty tired of HDDErase.

Still, I agree, a clear statement from Intel is needed...

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:46:35 GMT

I am mildly put outraged by this decission from Intel!

The forthmost reason I decided to buy Intel G1 myself (despite its high prices), instead of:

- OCZ Vertex

- SuperTalent Ultradrive ME

- G.Skill Falcon

- Patriot Torqx

(Which all have the great 64MB cached Indilinx Barefoot controller and is much cheaper than Intel G1)

Was because Intel was gonna release TRIM in a future G1 firmware!

I spent many months on this decision before i finally went trough with it and bough Intel X25-M80 G1. This drive is indeed very expensive so I could not afford more of them at that time in june 2009. 80GB was not adequate for my needs and my plans were to expand with more G1s later and run them in Raid-0 when TRIM and Windows7 was released. Thanks for making this a big no-go!

Instead of feeling that Ive bought a great product I now feel Ive been tricked, abused and fooled by Intel and that I now have a product which is substantially less worth to me.

I will not anymore recommend any of my contacts, customers or connections to buy an Intel SSD if this is not reconsidered! Before this Intel was on my top recommendation for anyone asking about SSD.

- I am outraged on Intel because of this.

- The second-hand prices will plumit because of this (thanks Intel!)

- Theres is no longer any interest in expanding it with more G1 80GBs to get the needed space.

- I can hardly use it for anything useful because of the small space.

- I wont touch G2 because of this and will inform everyone about this breach of trust.

This is just plain disrespect of your customers!

Regards

39 yo Senior System Consultant.

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:55:39 GMT

What about X25-E G1?

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 20:32:20 GMT

It will not get TRIM firmware either according to Anand..

The fact is, without TRIM, no SSD is working like it's intended to do, and all manufacturers - including Intel - have correctly put the blame on the lack of a proper SSD friendly OS, now we get the SSD friendly OS, and a hope that now, finally the SSD we bought for a heafty price will work like it should, instead we get shafted by Intel. I can feel the pain in my bones and I feel for all G1 owners....

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:00:13 GMT

w00thisButtonDo

I believe in the next week or so Intel are releasing firmware 8840 for the X-25E which will include a few improvements to the X-25E drive... whether this will include TRIM or not is a mystery and nobody knows. For more information see http://content.intel.pcnalert.com/dm/d.aspx/0ED4F3BA-B5F3-4402-9650-CBE90DB6FC26/PCN109480-00.pdf this

Anyway to reiterate what I sad earlier I would like to see the Gen1 X-25M drives have a firmware update which would not only include TRIM but also any bugs that were squashed during the R&D of the new Gen2 drives. (Performance encasements would also be a welcome bonus)

John

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 07:47:54 GMT

why bother? Any solid proof showing TRIM support will change much in the performance in both short term and long term?

The new ones are cheaper, but you may pay higher maintenance fee at this moment.....Intel seems having recall activities going.....

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 09:10:50 GMT

Well that's the advantage of SLC drives. Once cells are all used for the first time, performance usually drops by 10% in writing. But for MLC drives this usually is around 30%....

For Raid card users there is no possibility yet to use TRIM with Windows 7 even if the drives do support this.

Myself i always use a Raid card, never used the onboard connections for drives.

That's why i wait for the X25-e price drop and buy those drives.

But i can understand people having problems with their already bought Intel drives.

Intel is not the only company (if what Anand says is true), not offering firmware upgrade, OCZ did the same with their Core's......

Jeff

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:07:46 GMT

be it 10% or 30%, the difference may not be significant, X25-M is able to sustain at 70MB/s even if the drive is fully used up right? Look at how many X25-M drives can you buy for every X25-E.....Unless you have limited storage bay.....

Why do you need such an heavy write?

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:45:30 GMT

Ourasi, i disagree here:

- SLC drives will only get slower for around 10%

- if you want an SSD in your laptop.....fine, but to get the best out of SSD's one must go Raid0 with at least 3 drives, 4 is better.

- with 4 drives in Raid0, who cares about TRIM

Even my OCZ Core V1 still work perfectly after one year, no stuttering (in Raid0) still performing as should.

And believe me this are NOT your best drives ever (V1's i mean)

Jeff

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:29:28 GMT

Stay on topic here, this is about Trim, and the lack of a firmware update to support proper deletion and purging of LBA, no SSD is complete without it, period. Take a readup on http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531&p=10 and leave raid out of this discussion.. I have 2 Gen. 1 X25-M in raid0, and will happely split them if I got Trim FW, and there is just a matter of time before every controller out there supports Trim in raid0 etc.. If you don't care about TRIM, how nice for you, just respect those that do care, and know the effect of TRIM or lack of it...

This is what Anand thinks about current SSD owners and a TRIM firmware update:

"To the manufacturers making these drives: your customers buying them today at exorbitant prices deserve your utmost support. If it's possible to enable TRIM on existing hardware, you owe it to them to offer the upgrade. Their gratitude would most likely be expressed by continuing to purchase SSDs and encouraging others to do so as well. Upset them, and you'll simply be delaying the migration to solid state storage."

Looks like Intel just ignored that, and Anand "forgot" to to give Intel what they deserved for this kind of behaviour, dissapointing Anand, very dissapointing indeed.....

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:22:11 GMT

All previous attempts to get Intel to interact with end users via this forum have failed so this is most likely a waste of time but considering the brewing anger at reports of no TRIM support for G1 drives here goes anyway. Maybe if we are lucky we get the answer via Anandtech

Intel:

Please provide a statement on TRIM support for G1 drives. If it's not going to be forth coming what are the reasons?

When the firmware is updated for TRIM support on G2 drives will Intel raid drivers be updated at the same time so that TRIM works with a raid array?

When will the TRIM firmware update be issued for G2 drives? At the launch of Windows 7?

Will the X25-E G1's be provided with TRIM support? If not why?

And for the icing on the cake, what will the upcoming firmware update do for X25-E drives?

/post!reply.jspa?message=51425 /post!reply.jspa?message=51425

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

foeve — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:51:01 GMT

If i have to respect those "NEEDING" trim, then this works also the other way around....

There where topics on the OCZ board about trim and products not supporting this, so? My V1's do not support trim and i could not care less.

I feel SSD's bought before trim was available, do not need this upgrade at any cost.

It Intel offers trim, so be it, but if not for products on the market BEFORE trim, one should accept this.

Anyway, this will not stop me from buying Intels drives.

Jeff

I had to create another account in order to be able to reply.

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

foeve — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:54:13 GMT

Hi Tingshen,

no i do not need fast writing drives, but we all want the best and the fastest available and buy them, right?

Otherwise one could go for Trans... drives, slow but costing almost nothing.

This is just an example, no bashing of another product.

Anyway, let's face it, MLC drives will not live that long. But you got me thinking......

Jeff

Re: Will the 34nm 25X-M drives be the only ones that will be able to be flashed for TRIM support?

idata — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:07:43 GMT

huh? what do you mean by "will not live that long"? How long is long to you?

the future of server SSD will all based on MLC....with the performance & life expectancy of current SLC