topic Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group in Archive

Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

Alan_F_Intel — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:10:26 GMT

Dear User of the Intel® SSD Communities:

Thank you very much for your blogs on Intel Support Community related to updating the firmware on your Intel® 34nm High Performance SSDs. Intel is committed to its customers and its products and is taking this issue very seriously.

We have been contacted by users with SSD issues after using the firmware upgrade tool (version 1.3) in a Windows 7* 64bit environment. Intel has replicated the issue on 34nm SSDs (X25-M) and is working on a fix. If users have downloaded 02HA firmware and not upgraded, Intel recommends they don't upgrade until further notice. Intel is pursuing the resolution of this as a high priority. No related issues have been reported by users who have successfully upgraded to 02HA firmware via the firmware upgrade tool (version 1.3)."

You should know that Intel is seeking direct feedback on this issue from members of the Community. In fact, we have communicated with selected users of the blog "Trim Update Hosed my Windows 7 Install", asking them to send their drives directly to Intel to expedite the analysis of the issues. This action will enable us to more quickly generate a resolution for this issue.

We appreciate your patience in this matter. And thank you for participating in the Intel Support Community.

rgds,

Alan

NAND Solutions Group

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:50:16 GMT

Alan,

I am sure that the community users will be grateful for your clear statement.

It is understandable that many are getting exasperated, but I can also appreciate that it is vital to take the time to ensure that any fix is dependable.

Personally I was 'lucky' enough to miss the firmware release, and as I'm a Win 7 x64 user I am now quietly waiting for the fixed firmware to be released.

One question for Intel about supporting drivers: It is clear that the current release of Intel Matrix Storage Manager v8.9 drivers do not support TRIM.

Can Intel confirm or otherwise that the next iteration of the SATA drivers (Intel Rapid Storage Technology v9.5) will support TRIM, or will you be telling SSD users to remove Intel drivers and use default Windows 7 drivers in order to benefit from TRIM?

When is Rapid Storage Technology v9.5 going to be available for general download?

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:36:30 GMT

Alan,

Can you please confirm the following?

· Are you really saying this is a Windows 7/ 64 problem? If so will moving to Windows 7/32 solve the problem?

· Why is a firmware update not being issued to allow people to revert back to the old firmware version?

· In what circumstances was Intel able to replicate the problem?

Also please note I am having problems after a successful firmware update and I would appreciate direction in what I am supposed to do. RMA? Install Win 7/32?

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 20:43:41 GMT

Not sure what is meant by Windows 7 x64 problem since I installed the firmware on two X25-M 160GB drives with Windows 7 x64, one after Windows 7 x64 was installed and the other before Windows 7 x64 was installed.

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:13:52 GMT

I would love it if someone would explain te problem to me in simpler terms (using the X25-M for windows 7/64)

I've bought an 80 GB X25-M and a Toshiba X500 notebook. (Received the 80 GB, the notebook is on backorder)

The firmware on de X25 is 02G9

Without altering the firmware, can it safely be installed in a Windows7/64 notebook?

What are the problems I can encounter if I would use it unaltered?

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:57:50 GMT

If you don't update the firmware, then TRIM is not available to keep your drive up to specs. You could use the Intel Toolbox to do a manual TRIM and keep things up to specs, but the Toolbox was taken down for some reason.

Rather than take a chance, wait until they update the firmware, which shouldn't be too long. I installed the firmware before and after all the mess, but I knew it installed fine on my first drive so I wasn't worried about doing it again.

Yes, you can safely do the install without updating firmware.

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:14:24 GMT

Reading this (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1112/2/) article, shows why Intel removed the toolbox software.

For the optimization the latest firmware is needed, so I guess Toolbox is firmware dependant. That's why the toolbox has been retracted.

Reading the previous reaction I conclude that with my older (02G9) firmware, I could install Win7/64 without bricking my SSD .

During use the performance of the drive would slowly degrade, but would remain working.

Assuming that Intel eventually releases a stable updater and firmware that works fine with win7/64, I could update the firmware on this later date, without losing the data on the SSD. And then performing SSD maintenance (TRIM) to get the SSD speed back up to par.

Is this assumption right?

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:43:43 GMT

If you have the new firmware with TRIM support, then you do not have to run the Toolbox unless your storage driver does not pass the TRIM command or you are running Vista or XP. With Windows 7 you do not need to run the Optimizer unless using a driver that does not pass the TRIM command, such as Intel Storage Mamager driver.

When you update with new firmware supporting TRIM, you will not have to use Optimizer (manual TRIM) if using a driver that passes TRIM command in Windows 7, such as the driver that comes with Windows 7, just set your BIOS to AHCI before installing Windows 7. You should not lose any date updating to new firmware. The new firmware will automatically bring your system back to specs. You can verify that by running the AS SSD tool to benchmark: http://www.alex-is.de/PHP/fusion/downloads.php http://www.alex-is.de/PHP/fusion/downloads.php

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:13:18 GMT

I know the article suggests using the Optimizer and seems to suggest doing that regardless of driver, but the Intel White Paper states:

When using the latest Microsoft Windows* 7 operating system with Microsoft AHCI storage drivers the OS will contain native support to execute the Intel® SSD Optimizer on an Intel SSD without requiring any user interaction.

Microsoft Windows* 7

Microsoft* AHCINative OS support (Intel® SSD Toolbox not required)

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:18:59 GMT

That's clear enough for me now!.

ThanXaloT 4 taking the time to answer this.

I think a lot of people will benifit from this (simple) clear answer.

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:29:32 GMT

So it does. MS also say that Win 7 should automatically do the following when it detects a ssd; disable defrag, superfetch, readyboost and application prefetch launching. So, did any of the above happen when you updated the TRIM f/w? For me the answer is no. Nothing was automatically configured on a fresh install with the new f/w and Win 7 AHCI drivers.

According to that Legit review: [Intel] "don't have any documentation from Microsoft on how TRIM is run." WTF?

How do you know if the drive is auto trimming?

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:02:59 GMT

[According to that Legit review: [Intel] "don't have any documentation from Microsoft on how TRIM is run." WTF?]

I truly believe Microsoft marketing dept. should comment on that statement from Intel!

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:03:52 GMT

How do you know if the drive is auto trimming? Run the AS SSD tool I linked to above and see the benchmark results. I ran it before the TRIM update and after the TRIM update, and I run it occasionally now with TRIM enabled. The results continually confirm TRIM is running.

As for ReadyBoost, that is disabled on my computer. Superfetch is on Automatic and I can't be certain it is running. Microsoft may have changed their philosophy with regard to Prefetch and Superfetch, so I really couldn't say what is going on there. However, none of that changes the fact TRIM is running without using Toolbox when you have Microsoft AHCI storage driver installed and BIOS configured for AHCI in Windows 7.

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:06:38 GMT

The important thing is TRIM is working to keep your SSD up to specs--and that is the bottom line. How it works would be nice to know, but it wouldn't change what is being done.

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:21:08 GMT

MS made it very clear how Win 7 would optimise itself for SSD's. Those optimisations were built into Win 7 from day one and as far as I know they have not changed. You can read about them here:

http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx

It would seem that the recent Intel f/w update is not compliant with Win 7 TRIM ssd requirements. If it was those optimisations would be automatic.

So outside of benchmarking how can you check if your ssd is auto trimming and more to the point why are the G2 drives still not compliant with Win 7?

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:51:03 GMT

If you read that Blog again, you will see it does not say those actions regarding Superfetch, etc are for all SSD. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish here. The benchmark tests clearly show TRIM is enabled and working. If Windows 7 was not issuing the command for TRIM, you would not see your SSD brought back to specs. Stop worrying and enjoy your SSD. 😉

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:09:47 GMT

My reading skills are quite reasonable. The article is saying that not all optimisations will happen if the ssd is not fast enough. Are you saying Intel's drives are not fast enough and maybe that is why some of the optimisations were not implemented? What about defrag? That should be off whatever. It would seem that the f/w is (at best) not fully TRIM compliant with Win 7 because if it was those optimisations would be automatic and they are not.

So my question again. How do you know if trim is working automatically?

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:10:20 GMT

This is an except from that article, which by the way was written before final release of Windows 7: "Be(sic) default, Windows 7 will disable Superfetch, ReadyBoost, as well as boot and application launch prefetching on SSDs with good random read, random write and flush performance."

If you want to make a big fuss over that, go right ahead. I already told you how to know TRIM is working. I know TRIM is working because my SSD is up to specs. Before TRIM firmware update, my specs had detoriated after using Windows 7 for a few days.

Go ahead and keep on worrying...

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:18:25 GMT

Trim is enabled by default but can be turned off. You can use the "fsutil behavior query|set DisableDeleteNotify" command to query or set Trim. If fsutil reports that "DisableDeleteNotify" is 0, then Trim is enabled.

Checking is fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify

Re: Update from Intel's NAND Solutions Group

idata — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:17:57 GMT

As Intel have already confirmed in this forum; all that the "fsutil behavior query|set DisableDeleteNotify" command does is tell you that Win 7 is sending out the TRIM command. It is on by default. It does not necessarily mean that anything is happening to those commands.

I am simply asking why the f/w update from Intel does not appear to make the G2 compliant with the Win 7 TRIM spec.

I'm not worried but I am curious. I'm not sure why you seem to have a problem with that. (That is a rhetorical question by the way)